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posticon Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


In my eight years as a TITANIAC, I started out with the general view of Ismay, aided and abetted by Pellegrino, Cameron, et al. But in studying the whole subject, I believe that like many people on Titanic, Ismay was a basically decent human being causght up in a situation beyond his control.

Like nearly everyone, Ismay was more than a cardboard cutout of a regulation-bound executive...he had a solid history of trying to do the right thing, his contributions, both anonymous and attributed, are quite a few in number. Even after Titanic, I understand that he would give money to down-and-outers he'd met, making sure than no one ever knew it was JBruce Ismay doing the giving. He also started a fund for the surviving families of seamen who died at sea, and it was for ALL seamen's families, not just employees of the WSL...in an age where things were often very restricted ( if such a form of charity was even available!), I think that Ismay was very much trying to do what was right, even if he diden't always suceed.

If Ismay did something wrong in regards to TITANIC, it would have been not to have sufficient lifeboats on his ships, but in all fairness, "boats for all" was a result of the sinking...before that virutally nobody had "boats for all"...I'll hedge my bets by putting it that way, though I haven't read of anyone else in the shipping trade who had the "boats for all" development Pre-Titanic.]

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"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
May/15/2004, 4:55 am Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 
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Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


I pretty much agree with Lights.
What is the point in dying if you don't have to?
If the circumstances were as Ismay said then if I were him I would have got in the lifeboat too.
Villify him for his shortsightedness in regards to safety provisions sure.But remember 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'
Ahmen

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If people evolved from apes, why are there still apes?
May/15/2004, 1:40 pm Link to this post Send Email to The Foxes   Send PM to The Foxes
 
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Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


i agree fox but ,

then again if everyone agreed then we would be rather boring.

i too would have most likely gotten into a boat or at least tried my luck in the water.

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


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wills~~~~~
May/15/2004, 1:47 pm Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
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Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


Hi All

Lights I have to agree with you and others on the matter of him leaving the ship, But may I ask a open question why does everyone blame Ismay for the lack of boats for all.

If you think logical it would of made no difference anyway the crew where ill trained to get the boats they had in the water let alone more. Plus the issue was braught up and dismissed way before all the hoo har about boats for all. The more expencive option was made as it would of been cheeper to install more boats on old machinery. The main mistake came in the training of crew to work new equipment, Not Ismays problem surely. Training was not his part in the company. I think you will find that lay on someone elses shoulders.

Also in statments it is so common to miss out the fact all his personall staff where well off after his employ. All the familiys of the dead staff where well looked after, ok it is no substitute for the loss of life but at least he cared as a employer.

How many people know to this day there is a training ship with his name on her. Training young boys and girls to sail correctly?? It is still funded by the Ismays alone.

His scholership programme is still in place for young cadets to gain qualifications in seamanship. And a host of other things to his credit.

Regards
Graham

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Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
May/16/2004, 8:05 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
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posticon Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


Yeh well done Graham 01 I like the points you make. emoticon

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If people evolved from apes, why are there still apes?
May/16/2004, 12:53 pm Link to this post Send Email to The Foxes   Send PM to The Foxes
 
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Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


Hi Graham,

Actually, I don't blame Ismay for the lack of boats for all...I just mentioned that as the only fault which could possibly be held against him...amd actually, it cannot. NO ONE had "boats for all" until after the disaster...the kind of foresight necessary to have seen the disaster coming often seems to escape our species and it should not be held against him!

As you know, I have no problems with Ismay...he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and he lived to tell the tale. That is really the underlying point that people have held against him for over ninety years.That's the rub as Shakespeare would say.

You are right...people often forget all the good that Ismay did whilst alive and instead want to grind the fact of his survival into the ground. OK, he survived...would all these people be happier if he'd frozen to death...yeah, maybe so...


---
"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
May/16/2004, 6:10 pm Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 
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Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


Hi Lights

Sorry I was not barraging your answer, As you know my thaughts on Ismay too well.

On your closing statment though I do have to disagree. If he had frozen to death the media would of said that he had a chance to escape if stories are true about officers telling him to go. They then would of said things like he died in order not to be questioned and he knew what would happen .

It is a strange world we live in

On the subject of the ship sinking in the first place, if it was not titanic it would of been another one. The ships of the time still held a raffle ticket to see if they made the crossing safely, Speed was the order of the day due to turn round in port. Mail to be got there, ( It also has to be said there was no bounty on early mail and no penilty for late mail) so mail was not the reason for speed, but passenger time and port time was. Just like today we complain if a train or bus is late, the same then on ships. Passengers did not like been funneld on a ship with cases etc. not going to the caboin with them , If a ship was held up that is exactly what happend. Or it cost the shipping company big penalty cost for over birth.

Ismay was only one man saved out of many others. Few of the others where picked on like he was. and still is to this day

Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
May/17/2004, 8:15 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
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Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


I think everyone is missing the point. Someone must be held responible for this tragedy! Someone had made bad decisions somewhere! Someone must pay!

This had little to do with the actual facts of the case, and much to do with the tendancy of the public in the face of a disaster to need to put a human face on the reasons behind it. The public wanted a scapegoat, the newspapers provided. Please notice he was more-or-less exhonerated by both inquiries.

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Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


as bad as it seems people did want a scapegoat .. they didnt want one after the inquiries they wanted one right then and they got one. whether it is right or whether it is wrong bruce happen to be the one they picked.

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
May/19/2004, 12:19 am Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
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Re: J Bruce Ismay (opinions)


HI Wills and TTF

I agree the publc did want a scapegoat yes, Same thing happens today ion reality, Something big happens and a head must roll. But I know of many good directors of company's who have resighned through a bad press when it is nothing to do with them, Ismay was resighning anyway, His letter was in and his date set way before the titanic sailed.

Yes he was cleared by not one but two inquest, But this left the problem who was to blame, As one cannot take a burg to court a face as TTF says has to be seen present to blame, Hurst did his best to make sure the face was his enemy Bruce.

I find it intersting to the point that the real owner of the vesel did not come in the equation. Morgan was suposed to of sailed on the ship on the maiden voyage, and due to illeged illness he did not, This aparently through the WSL in a bit of a problem. But the ship sailed berthage was altered, Bruce as he did on most of his ships sailed with the maiden voyage. I use the word most as there is a few he did not.

Now to me there was more a story in the fact the wealthinest person on ship was missing, Morgan !! He did not sail he canxcelled his passage and the ship sunk, I wonder to this day and it is imposible to say just what would of happend if he was aboard. This would take the heat of Ismay and place it firmly in the lap of Morgan. That is of course unless Hirst did want to distroy Bruce.

Graham

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Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
May/19/2004, 7:02 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 


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