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graham 01 Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
Location: Middlesbrough UK
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Re: dum crew men


HI Lights

I really agree with you here, I had not really associated this until we did the enactment and thought about it in a lateral sense. I know others have come to it as well ,and many discussions have been brought on this matter now but it is a new one for this board in any case.
I also take your point regarding the gesture bit. Not so sure it was a gesture but see where you are coming from. Maybe and this is a just maybe , he did believe he would be blamed for the whole affair. I do not see this myself but you never know.

I also do believe he knew there was going to be a big outcry on how's and why, And I guess he also knew a lot of it would be a white wash as well.

People did take there responsibilities well though back then so maybe just maybe...

Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
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Apr/19/2004, 8:34 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
Teamtunafish Profile
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Re: dum crew men


I don't even know if he was considering all that - he may well just have been frozen, shock does that.
Apr/19/2004, 1:47 pm Link to this post Send Email to Teamtunafish   Send PM to Teamtunafish ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo Blog
 
graham 01 Profile
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Re: dum crew men


Hi TTF

That is also true.

Graham

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Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
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Apr/19/2004, 1:56 pm Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
Lights Profile
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Re: dum crew men


<<Even so, the Great Eastern had been built with a lot of redundancy in it - and all those safety measures being chipped away - there are reasons for those designs. Most engineers are cautious people, and for good reason - they know a lot of the possibilities. Icebergs were on that list>>
Hi, TTF
ust found this whilst up mucking round before bed...and taking a break from writing FC...Yes, Brunel had some very sound reasons for designing the Great Easternthe way he did and the design was and remains pretty sound. However, unfortunately, the engineers did not have the final say...the traveling public did...they wanted convenience (elimination of watertight decks) and speed (we all know where THAT led!). The customer pays the freight and thus, unfortunately, calls many of the shots. Just a note as to why safety feature after safety feature that were included in Great Eastern were slowly, but surely, whittled away.

---
"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
Apr/21/2004, 5:33 am Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 
graham 01 Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
Location: Middlesbrough UK
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Re: dum crew men


Hi Lights

I tend to agree with you onn the point of safety mesures. We as the public all moan at this that and the other yet when they place them and remove them because we moan and something goes wrong , Who do we blame.

Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
Apr/21/2004, 8:28 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
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Re: dum crew men


quote:

The customer pays the freight and thus, unfortunately, calls many of the shots. Just a note as to why safety feature after safety feature that were included in Great Eastern were slowly, but surely, whittled away.



This was really more of the owners, wanting more room to pack in the customers, and to offer said customer more luxury. Or did you mean the owners were the customers? Sorry, that's kinda unclear.
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wills Profile
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Re: dum crew men


i think in white star line's case it was more because the passengers were wealthy and they wanted to please them in anyway and they were focussing mostly one the space for them to parade down the sun deck of their ships...

i think this is a case where the customers were the passengers first class and they had the say in more than what we think.

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
May/8/2004, 4:37 am Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
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Re: dum crew men


I can name one person who cowardly abandoned his own ship. His initials are, JBI, and 4-EVER he is plagued by this name, J. Brute Ismay, for jumping ship...when he should've stayed behind.

The true brave men & women (Ida Strauss, just to name one, opting to stay with her husband of many years), are those who stayed behind and stick it out, or go down with the ship. I take my hats off to her, for I know that I too, would do the same thing if I were in her shoes. And my better half, witnessed JBI taking his cowardly self's place in a lifeboat.

MA



---
Love can touch us one time and last for a life time.
And Never let go till we're gone.
Love was when I loved you, one true time I hold to.
In my life we'll always go on. ~ "My Heart Will Go On" by James Horner & Will Jennings
May/8/2004, 5:02 pm Link to this post Send Email to MurdochsAid   Send PM to MurdochsAid
 
wills Profile
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Re: dum crew men


well i would not call saving your own skin being a coward.

and besides we ourselves would not know for sure what we would have done in the same situation

so we ourselves couldnot call others names ..
it is unfair....
we can say we would have stayed behind but in reality we would never know what we would do in those situations.

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
May/8/2004, 7:00 pm Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
Lights Profile
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posticon Re: dum crew men


Hi, Wills,

I have to agree that none of us know exactly what we would have done in Ismay's case...it's nice to think that we would all be brave and go down with the ship. Many of us might well do that, but many of us might make the same decision Ismay did.
   
Actually I believe that Ismay was in some-thing of a "Catch-22" situation: if he gets in a lifeboat, people call him a coward for not going down with the ship. If he decides to (in essence) commit suicide by going down with the ship, people call him a coward and say he went down with Titanic out of a desire not to face the consequences. Not a great spot to be in.

---
"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
May/9/2004, 6:33 am Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 


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