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Lights Profile
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Registered: 06-2003
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Re: Spirits/Ghosts


I am going mostly on impressions here...I do know that Will loved his da more than almost anything in this world...worshipped the ground that he walked on...I did get the distinct impression that he felt that nothing he ever did was good enough for his da. Now i say impression because I never got the chance to speak to Captain Murdoch about anything after Will's death. It was just this impression of this--inadequacy that I was getting from Will.

I have heard from another Murdoch reincarnatee...or at least a woman who once carried a fair bit of Murdoch within her say that he was abused by his father...but as for carved in stone proof of this...in all honesty I cannot say that it happened...Will never mentioned anything like that during his life...but then he would not...he was an officer and a gentleman who did not believe in complaining and the way he loved his da...no, nothing would ever have been said...


---
"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
Jun/21/2004, 3:40 am Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 
graham 01 Profile
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Re: Spirits/Ghosts


Hi Wills

Thank you for contacting Miss stormer for the information I look forward to the reply.

Lights

First I am not sure which PL person you speak of here and I do not intend for you to say either as that would be unethical for anyone to do so unless the person is of course available to reply here. But I must stress a few points regarding this. First in my time around the titanic world, I have known or supposed to of known around 10 reincarts who say they are of Murdoch, This is because William has the stigma of the one who is supposed to of shot himself. I am not going into that at all as I do have my own belief in that story and know there is many ways the event has been published and re published, wrote about and discussed all to a unsavourily ending.And as yet there is only one who I believe is a PL of him and this yet is unproved but nearer than any I have seen and I for one do believe the latter one. So back to the main point.

As I have said earlier, this is no way any disrespect to any poster but William was aboard his fathers ship when this so called verbal abuse was mentioned. He was a young seaman with which he was under the eyes of many people. Lets say for instance that he did something wrong, and lets be fair he will of done at some point. Is his father as captain supposed to take him to one side and talk to him about it, Yes he will but not at the time. He is going to hollow orders to him to correct it. just as he would do to any other sailor on ship. He is a junior and as such is treated the same way or he is marked as favourite.

Now we all know what happens to ships favourite person, they get ridiculed from the rest of the crew often leading to the departure of the sailor or worse. These where cut throat days of sailing not the relaxed way of today. Safety was paramount on board. Not friendship. Of course on the other side of the coin his Father would of been seen as soft as well, and that for a captain is a bad thing. He is supposed to be in charge not a whimpering fool who looks after only so many of his crew. They are all in his charge not just one.

I doubt very little if any truth will come of this so called allegation of Verbal abuse, He was a loved member of the Murdoch family. And yes in effect was his fathers favourite but he was a good strict father for the times and made sure his children got the best he could do for them.

Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
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Jun/21/2004, 9:38 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
wills Profile
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Re: Spirits/Ghosts


thank you graham fo saying that. i agree when at sea the captain is responsible for getting you and the ship across safetly . i really dont think that Sam would have yelled at William any more then he would have any other crew men.

as far as stormer i am waiting and looking forward to her reply.

wills






---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
Jun/22/2004, 1:39 am Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
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Re: Spirits/Ghosts


Hi Wills

Thank you for the reply, And I know that a captain will treat all his crew the same way regardless weather they are friends familiy or whatever. He needs to in order to keep his own respect.

I would of thaught anyone who had a bit of knowledge would of understood that, And I know you did.

I look forword to hearing from you regarding the reply

Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
Jun/22/2004, 8:25 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
Lights Profile
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Re: Spirits/Ghosts


I didn't get the chance to post at length on this, but I agree with you about the "Iquique incident"...any captain worth his salt is not going to play favourites with his crew...makes no difference...his sons are going to get treated like every one else.

Also, there is a tendency to look at past periods of history through a late 20th Century/early 21st Century lens...which I suppose is unavoidable, but that lens will necessarily produce a flawed image...the fact is children were raised much more strictly and things considered flat out abuse these days would have been simply standard childrearing back in 19th Century Scotland.

I can honestly say I never got a sense of Will's having been what we would call an abused child nowadays...cowed maybe but then I get the feeling that Capt. Murdoch had a pretty strong personality, so it might be natural for his son to feel that way...

---
"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
Jun/22/2004, 10:08 am Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 
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Re: Spirits/Ghosts


HI Lights

May I ask you to elaborate on this bit for me please.

"I can honestly say I never got a sense of Will's having been what we would call an abused child nowadays...cowed maybe but then I get the feeling that Capt. Murdoch had a pretty strong personality, so it might be natural for his son to feel that way..."

It is the coward bit. In what way do you mean this I have never seen any information on Murdoch to sugest anything like that.

The capt of a ship like I keep saying is responcible for many lifes, As such he cannot take prisoners so to speak. I know Wills has done many hours work on this and I tend to believe her when she says there is no evidence regarding this, Perhaps if the person who originally braught it up could read as well as she apears to be able to pick on the written word none of this would of happend.

Graham




---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
Jun/22/2004, 12:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
Lights Profile
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posticon Re: Spirits/Ghosts


Hi, Graham,

"Cowed" and "coward" are, at least in my book two entirely different things. I would never suggest that William Murdoch was a coward because he was not and I never saw him as such.

"Cowed" as in a bit overwhelmed by, in awe of and perhaps a bit fearful of disappointing is what I mean by "cowed", Graham. You should know by now that I could not have a higner opinion of William Mc Master Murdoch if my life were to depend upon it. emoticon

edited by Lights, Jun/22/2004, 9:14 pm


---
"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
Jun/22/2004, 7:08 pm Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 
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Re: Spirits/Ghosts


hello lights,
that is great to hear that you still hold high reguard for your former pal.

i too believe and know he was afraid to dissappoint his father. i also know that because he was the only one of sam's children to actually go to sea he was the one Sam paid attention too more. curious as to how his child was doing.

that can all but be expected though. especially from samuel murdoch. his father was a strict father and samuel being the oldest had to grow up rather fast and more was expected of him then most of the others. so it was up to him to help. so he passed that on to his family.

not a bad trait in any ways.

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
Jun/22/2004, 9:00 pm Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
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Re: Spirits/Ghosts


Hi Lights

Whoops sorry I did mis read the post completely, I was not in the best of yesterday and sort of just skim read most osts, I do apologise and that is why I was so surprised to see you say what you did, but now I have re read it I realise what you where getting at. Again I apologise.



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Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
Jun/23/2004, 8:02 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
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Re: Spirits/Ghosts


Hi Wills

Lights does hold Murdoch in the highest regards and why should he not in a way, He was his best friend aboard the Titanic and other ships they sailed on together,

And lets face it in this life he is closer to him now than ever before.

At least I can direct him now to the true Person and not the thaught person or hope I can.

You know my feelings on Murdoch and the whole thing so.

As you so correctly oint out Sam was a strickt father and in a way thatwent with the days, But he also had a glow for William as yes he was the only sea fairer in the family to follow him, That was a proud father as well. He wanted the best for his son and if that meant he had to shout and screem orders to him at times as he did to others then so be it.

William grew to have the same sort of feelings his father had and by no ways is that a bad thing, He was loyal and respected throughout his carrear. I hope you get a re[ply from Ms Stormer and I hope you will at least share it with me but I also know it is a very personal thing and as such it is your decition.

Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
Jun/23/2004, 8:13 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
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