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7th officer Profile
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Registered: 04-2004
Posts: 417
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Re: IS IT RIGHT


TTF, a lot of museums are profit oriented--and still good museums doing good work. A good example of this is Mel Fisher and the Atocha. There is argument to death about what he's done so it doesn't need to go on here, but regardless, historians have indeed learned quite a bit from his 'treasure hunt/salvage' operation--and his museum is pretty good.
Anyway, some may be profit oriented, but no one is making a killing I can tell you...and the folks doing the work are, for the most part, there for the same reasons you or I would love to be there.
For instance, the ship stuff I am currently working on is a Confederate warship. While I am a Civil War buff of sorts, I am not much interested in 19th cent. ironclad naval stuff. But I CAN really get off on handling the artifacts knowing what all they went through. Sure, to me it's mostly a bunch of scrap iron...but when I stop and realize what the stuff would bring on the open collector's market I freak out. And I am glad it is going to a state museum.
Which brings me to the pirates, looters, or whatever you call them (I like the term miners as they usually are just digging for cash). Some are relic hunters who do it not for money but the thrill of the find...at least they appreciate some of what they find (the 'pretty stuff'), but they usually throw away or destroy the not so pretty stuff--which is still part of the historic fabric.
The ones that only do it to sell, I don't have any sympathy for them at all. They usually do much damage, both to the artifacts and worse, to the site in which they loot. The 'in situ' archeaological data (context) is lost and it is things like that that really bother the professional.

>>Graham said:A lot of artifacts they braught up got lost or ruined, Only selected items where shown. <<

Well that's true of most sites everywhere. We are not magicians...stuff gets wrecked--or isn't good in the first place, and naturally only the best stuff gets to be exhibited.
I won't bore you all, but we generally have five catagories that excavated artifacts fall in. Only the top one makes it to the public eye in an exhibit--it's normal proceedure.
May/14/2004, 7:31 pm Link to this post Send Email to 7th officer   Send PM to 7th officer
 
graham 01 Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
Location: Middlesbrough UK
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Re: IS IT RIGHT


Hi 7th

Not wishing to get nto any arguments , But why touch move or defianatly bring to the surface any item you are going to throw away,

I seem to remeber from the Titanic stuff was just pushed in cases in a warehouse and forgot till it was too late. Now do we call this justified loss or neglect. Or do we realy say they coulkd not care less about peoples belongings or indeed artifacts. We come back to money. and greed.

Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
May/14/2004, 7:41 pm Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
wills Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
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Re: IS IT RIGHT


quote:

Graham 01 wrote:

Hi 7th

Not wishing to get nto any arguments , But why touch move or defianatly bring to the surface any item you are going to throw away,

I seem to remeber from the Titanic stuff was just pushed in cases in a warehouse and forgot till it was too late. Now do we call this justified loss or neglect. Or do we realy say they coulkd not care less about peoples belongings or indeed artifacts. We come back to money. and greed.

Graham



interesting point graham.

it doesnt make a lot of since as to why they would just put it away and 'forget ' about it..
but i also see where 7th is comming from as well. historians have learned a lot and some museums are not all for the money but they do need the money to keep it open to the public.

just my thoughts

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
May/14/2004, 9:13 pm Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
Teamtunafish Profile
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: Arlington VA
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Re: IS IT RIGHT


That's why I love Washington DC - we have some of the greatest museums in the world here.
May/14/2004, 10:27 pm Link to this post Send Email to Teamtunafish   Send PM to Teamtunafish ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo Blog
 
wills Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
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Re: IS IT RIGHT


awww we have one museum it is nice ...

but nothing to fancy smancy .

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
May/15/2004, 2:44 am Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
graham 01 Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
Location: Middlesbrough UK
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Re: IS IT RIGHT


Hi Wills

Yes I am sorry I did not mean to disagree with 7th, As I dont, I know that without retrieving artifacts from the past our history would be incomplete. What I dont see is what possable good a cup spoon saucer etc. is to history. When there is a wharehouse full of the stuff brand new and stuffed away or sold on the open market.

There is a few hotels here in the UK who use WSL titanic dinner plates. They are from the boxes of spare ones and are real.

Billingham has the wood from the Britanic on her walls as does another hotel not to far away but from the other ships of the WSL.

I do a lot of work with Maritime museums and enjoy it as well. But it is things donated from people that have been used through generations not nicked items from a lost ship whith bodies.

Yes I do see the need to salvage and in a whole I am not against this if no loss of life occured. I could site one very famouse ship wreck where many court cases managed to stop any salvage attempt. And this was not UK, I am not going into this though but find it interesting that it appears it is ok to salvage the titanic in a way they do when the claim in court on the other ship was exactly the same thing.

Regards
Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
May/15/2004, 7:59 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
Lights Profile
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: Anyplace on Water
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Re: IS IT RIGHT


Well, we have museums here...just not the kind that old Lights likes best...the kind that deal with ships. emoticon

---
"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
May/16/2004, 5:33 pm Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 
wills Profile
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Re: IS IT RIGHT


i hear you lights the museum here deals with the ares history and things like that.

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
May/16/2004, 9:17 pm Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
graham 01 Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
Location: Middlesbrough UK
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Re: IS IT RIGHT


Hi Wills

We have hundreds of those, a lot are what is known as a working museum, Like mines and pits.

Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
May/17/2004, 8:50 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
Lights Profile
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Registered: 06-2003
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posticon Re: IS IT RIGHT


As my little mate would say Graham, "I want a SHIPPY museum!!!" emoticon

---
"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
May/17/2004, 4:58 pm Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 


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