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Cedric Member

Registered: 02-2004
Posts: 4308
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flying dutchman.


hello everyone.

have any of you ever heard of the story the flying dutchman?
i know in another thread we talk about titanic myths and superstions of sailors.
i know that perhaps this is one of the most
well known of the superstions.
my question is has anyone heard of it?
iknow there are a lot of different websites about it but i am just curious as to what you think.

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
Mar/18/2004, 2:12 am Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
Titanica Profile
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Registered: 03-2004
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Re: flying dutchman.


Nopes Wills, I have never heard of a flying man!! What is it?

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Mar/21/2004, 2:33 pm Link to this post Send Email to Titanica   Send PM to Titanica Blog
 
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Celtic

Registered: 03-2004
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posticon Re: flying dutchman.


I've heard of the Flying Dutchman, can't remember much about the story though. Is it on the lines of the Mari Celest, not sure I have spelt that right but I'm sure you know what I am talking about emoticon

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wills Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
Posts: 4308
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Re: flying dutchman.


hello everyone,

the flying dutchman is a legend at sea. itis a story that has been told and retold through the years....

it is a story about a ghost ship .
 i will post a link soon so you can draw your own conclusions.

i myself find the story really fascinating.
wills


---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
Mar/22/2004, 12:25 am Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
Titanica Profile
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Re: flying dutchman.


Now you got me hooked!! Tell us more Wills?? I love Ghost storiesemoticon

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Mar/22/2004, 10:16 am Link to this post Send Email to Titanica   Send PM to Titanica Blog
 
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Location: Middlesbrough UK
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Re: flying dutchman.


Hi Titanica

The "Flying Dutchman" actually refers to the Captain not the ship. There are so many different stories for this one it is one of those that is hard to research and work out.

Regards
Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
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Mar/22/2004, 11:12 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
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Re: flying dutchman.


Thanks for the info, Graham. You're a textbook on Ships, I salute you emoticon I am still glued to the screen reading about the Naronic!! emoticon

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Mar/22/2004, 11:16 am Link to this post Send Email to Titanica   Send PM to Titanica Blog
 
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Re: flying dutchman.


Hi Titanica

Many people have said they can read me like a book :-)

The Naronic is a favourite of mine since John really wet my appetite. I am sure he will have you glued to the screen when he starts posting.

Regards
Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
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Mar/22/2004, 11:21 am Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
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Cedric Member

Registered: 02-2004
Location: Middlesbrough UK
Posts: 5797
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Re: flying dutchman.


Hi All

OK lets do a short synopsis of the "Flying Dutchman" This is part one of the instalment.

Sea stories and folklore are a great way for sailors who where kept shut up in the focsul f the ship to relate to each other, Weather it was ghost stories or fantastic voyages by un named captains and crews. many we can go into later, but lets look at the case of the "flying Dutchman"

Many people when asked about this will answer "yes I have heard or read about this ship" As stated previously it is not a ship but the Captain of the ship who is known as the flying Dutchman.

Even this has brought many different names forward as the Captain sited for the honour to be him. So who are the main contenders,
Captain Philip Marryat in his book "The phantom Ship"(1839) says the captain is one Philip Vanderdecken , Other writers seemed to like this name but altered the first name to things like Cornelios, have to say it sounds better than Philip. But here we come with a problem. For those of us who speak Dutch will realise that the name "Vanderdecken" translates to "on the deck", But to add weight to the name a fictitious background was also given to Cornelios, He was said to be a Captain of a Dutch East Indianman, had a fiery temper, and total disregards for human life. Also expressed as a Evil raving lunatic.

So if the above was not the Flying Dutchman what about the Dutch legend names , Tradition has him as one Captain Falkenburg, Again with a full sea career listing all the above qualities. But Washington Irvin has his name as Ramhout Van Dam, in the year 1855.

So with the fictitious names out of the way, I have only mentioned a few by the way. Lets look at a real sea Captain who fits the bill.

Bernard Fokke, Captain Fokke was a 17th century sea captain of extraordinary speed of his ships. It was always suspected that he had done a deal with the devil himself. And that in the end the devil had recalled the debt. He was also a rather un godly man. Seems to fit the bill. If you look into the history of this sea Captain it becomes apparent that his speed can be simply put down to the construction of his Ship. The sea Captain was also a rather clever man and was working in the future. His mast was encased in steel and he learned to use every available inch of sail. So not much of the devils help there. It is also worth noting that Sir Walter Scott in 1813 also got in on the act of the "Flying Dutchman" he said it was carrying gold and silver, all onboard got the plague no port will accept her etc. etc.

Part two to follow.

Regards
Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
Mar/22/2004, 2:42 pm Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
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Cedric Member

Registered: 02-2004
Location: Middlesbrough UK
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Re: flying dutchman.


Sightings of the Flying Dutchman

Those who know the story of the “cruel sea” and “master mariner” Will know they where written by Nicholas Monsarrat, Nicholas Monsarrat was on board the H.M.S. Jubilee on the 3rd of August 1942. The ship was under sail heading towards the Royal Navy Base in Simonstown. In charge of the watch was one Mr Davis, second officer of the ship. The third officer aboard this ship and also on watch was Nicholas Monsarrat. At 9pm that night a phantom sailing ship was spotted. Monsarrat signalled the ship, which would have been his duty, as Third officer on watch but got no response.

The second officer Mr Davis recorded in the ships log. “A Schooner of a class I do not recognise, sailing under full sail, weather no wind, we had to change our course to avoid a collision.”

This incident occurred during hostile war times. So his superiors would have been in no mind for any nonsense regarding the log. In order to put in a log he must have been sure of what he saw and the action he had to take. In interviews later Nicholas Monsarrat admitted that this sighting inspired his story of the Master Mariner.

Way before the sighting by Monsarrat there where many sightings, but there is one other famous sighting by a naval ship. A midshipman aboard the H.M.S. Bacchante. The time was 4am in the morning. The following was described in a diary. “ At 4am the Flying Dutchman crossed our bows” The midshipman was not the only person to see this sailing ship. The lookout on the Forecastle and the officer of the watch also saw the ghost ship of the port bow.

In his diary he wrote “.. A strange red light, as of a phantom ship, all aglow in the midst of which light the mast, spars and sails of a brig two hundred yards distant, stood out in strong relief as she came up.” But not only did the crew of the H.M.S. Bacchante see this ship but others in the fleet also reported sightings of it. The Cleopatra and the Tourmaline logged the events in their logs. It is worth saying that Prince Louis of Battenburge commanded the squadron. Who was the Great uncle of Prince Phillip. And the Midshipman involved who wrote in his diary was Prince George future King of England.

For those who know the legend of the Flying Dutchman will know that anyone seeing it is befallen with bad luck . In proof of this the seaman who first reported the sighting died seven hours after the report was made. He fell from the mast while on watch.

The Royal Navy records are littered with reported sightings of phantom ships. Another Captain of the Royal Navy. Captain W.F.W.Owen a well renowned Royal Navy surveyor. Entered in the ships log of H.M.S. Leven. Twice a phantom ship was sighted, and on one occasion it was seen to lower a boat to attempt communication with us. Fully aware of all the dangers of such a ship Captain Owen did not respond to it. These sightings where in 1823.

Amoral Karl Doenitze, German admiral during the war. Stated that his U Boat captains and crew logged sightings of the Flying Dutchman off the Cape Peninsular.

All the above are Naval reports, there is countless other reports but as these do not need to officially logged do not get so much as a mention. But one famous sighting was from a crowed of people on Glencairn Beach reported seeing a full masted sailing ship sailing in the wind. The day was hot and windless but the ship had a full wind full of sail. It was heading strait for the rocks. People started to worry she would founder on the rocks when as quick as she appeared she disappeared.

There does not seem to be any modern day sightings of the Flying Dutchman but it must also be said most ships do not sail that course now. Only large super tankers.

This is by no means the full story, there are thousands of less reported sightings but the ones I state here are from official Navy reports. Fully documented and signed by the ships captain or higher.




---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
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