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Cedric Member

Registered: 03-2004
Posts: 551
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


Navynuke...yippy, spot on.. emoticon I wish I had bought a lottory ticket today!! emoticon I could have guessed the numbers!

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Apr/8/2004, 3:55 pm Link to this post Send Email to Titanica   Send PM to Titanica Blog
 
Rosie1912 Profile
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Celtic

Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 55
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


I've got tons of Cameron goofs..I'll do the historical errors now:

Have fun!

A favorite..considering it is pretty well known one would think Cameron coulda gotten it right.

Margaret Brown was never refered to as "Molly" until after her death. While Old Rose's references are acceptable, since she'd be using the form the modern crew knew, Astor also calls her "Molly" as she is coming to dinner.


The Titanic's middle propeller was not used for maneuvering in port, and hence would have been stationary when starting away from the dock.

The reciprocating engines were controlled from a platform between the two engines about midway between the floor and the top of the cylinders, not from the engine room floor. Even if the engines were controlled from the floor level the controls would have been at the opposite end of the engines since we are looking at the aft end of the engines, and the boiler rooms are forward of the reciprocating engine room. Also, it would have been quite impossible to see those engines from the vantage point we are given since the watertight bulkhead between the reciprocating engine room and turbine engine room would prevent us from being able to stand back far enough.

In overhead shots of the forecastle deck, the skylight for the crew's galley can be seen located to starboard. This skylight was actually on the port side.

The main characters have lunch in the Palm Court/Verandah on A Deck. These were not used for dining, although passengers could order tea or a small snack.

Cal orders lamb with mint sauce for himself and Rose. Lamb was only available for dinner on the ship, while mutton was reserved for lunch. The lamb was prepared in the D-Deck galley and would not have been served in the Palm Court.

During the scene when Rose "flies" from the ship's bow, the sunlight is clearly falling almost exactly straight across the ship from left to right. On the evening of April 14, the ship had in fact turned to almost a due west course, placing the actual setting sun almost straight ahead and slightly to the right.

The hands sketching Rose are clearly too old to belong to Jack. (They actually belong to director 'James Cameron' .)

After the spitting scene, the characters are called to dinner by a boy blowing a bugle. "Molly" Brown makes a comment about how unflattering it is. In fact, the White Star Line considered the bugle to be too "German" and the page would have used a small xylophone-like instrument.

Workers in the Titanic's engine room had to wear thick protective clothing to shield them from the heat generated by the engines. (Another correspondent claims that such clothing was not available, though that seems unlikely.)

The lighting in the sinking sequence is wrong. The Titanic sunk on a moonless night so it would have been nearly pitch black after the ship's lights went out.

As the Red Funnel Line tugs pull the ship in Southampton, the ship's name is visible on the starboard, but not port, sides. (It should be on both.)

When the radio operator sends out the "CQD" message, the pattern of dots and dashes he makes with the key is not intelligible Morse code.

Professional radio operators hold the key with the thumb and two fingers, rather than tapping on it as shown. Tapping would produce a bad "fist" (the Morse code equivalent of a harsh voice).

When Captain Smith enters the wheelhouse, the ship's telegraph is set to "Full Reverse" instead of "All Stop."

Jack is supposedly held prisoner in the Master-at-Arms' office, which is depicted as having a porthole. On the Titanic, this room was an interior room and hence would have no portholes.

There was no door between boiler room 6 and the cargo area (and no access to any but authorized crew). If there had been a door, it would have entered the third cargo area aft, not the one where the Renault was stored.

The crew of lifeboat #14 didn't have flashlights to use when looking for survivors in the water. Cameron knew this when making the film, but used the flashlights to provide lighting.

The six people pulled from the water by Officer Lowe's boat were all men. (However, there was one woman who was taken off of the overturned collapsible that Lightoller was on.)

Thomas Andrews never put on a life vest.

Passengers were not allowed at the forecastle head, or bow. The sign that declared "Passengers Not Allowed Beyond This Point" was mounted on the leeward side of the forward breakwater (both port and starboard), and was missing in the film.

There was no suction when the stern sank. Chief Baker Charles Joughin rode the stern all the way down. He stepped off as it submerged without even getting his head wet.

The parlor suite occupied by Rose, Ruth, and Cal in the film (B52, B54, B56) was in reality occupied by J. Bruce Ismay himself.

John Jacob Astor is last shown inside the ship when it sank. This is inaccurate becuase his body was crushed by the first smokestack. His body was identified by the initials sewn on the lapel of his jacket.

The Statue of Liberty is shown in green in 1912. The Statue of Liberty is made out of copper. It took nearly 70 years after 1876 to become green because of the salt in the air.

The lights are shown going off before the ship broke in half. The lights did not go out until it broke in half.

When the Titanic is leaving, the newsreel cameraman is cranking the camera left-handed; hand-cranked cameras are all right-handed, but the scene was filmed mirror image and reversed.

The coat worn by Captain Smith had plain anchor buttons; the actual tunics had "White Star Line" buttons.

Fabrizio's and Jack's room on G-Deck starts to flood soon after the iceberg hits. However, plans of the Titanic show that there were no third-class rooms at the bow on that deck, only at the stern. There were "open berths" at the bow end.

In several scenes when the ship's officers are outdoors on the cold night of the sinking, the rank insignia has the executive curl (the semi-circle atop one or more stripes indicating the rank) going astern (the wrong way), this would result in great embarrassment for the officers involved.

A flare is shown to be fired before the first lifeboat is lowered. In fact, a person who brought the flares to the wheelhouse was Quartermaster Rowe. At the time of the collision he was on duty on the ship's stern and he remained there until he spotted the first lowered boat on the surface. Only then he was told via a phone from the 4th Officer Boxhall to bring the flares to the wheelhouse and to fire them.

The Titanic is shown to be at Southampton docks in brilliant sunshine. Yet, photographs from the actual event seem to show the sky overcast.

Captain Smith announces that he has ordered the last remaining unlit boilers lit. Actually only 24 of the 29 boilers were ever lit. The full-speed test (all boilers lit) was to have taken place on Monday, the 15th.

When Titanic left port it pulled the docks towards the ship so tugboats had to pull the dock back. This was because of the power and how it was moving. In the movie they don't show the docks doing that and they don't show tugboats holding them from the front view.

First Officer Murdoch is shown lowering Collapsible C lifeboat (the one with Ismay in it). It was actually Chief Officer Wilde who lowered this boat.

In the end, when they are coming back to pick up survivors, it echoes when they call out, "Is there anyone alive out there?" What are the sound waves bouncing off, icebergs?
Apr/8/2004, 6:57 pm Link to this post Send Email to Rosie1912   Send PM to Rosie1912
 
titanicangel06 Profile
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Registered: 04-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 527
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


woah, now i haveto watch the movie again with a copy of that at hand, because i knew there were a few but not quite that bad...thankyou very much for your post!

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"I have been here a week, chiefly occupied trying to find my way about the big omnibus"-James Paul Moody, RMS Titanic 1912

"Nobody is worth crying over, and the one who is will never make you cry"-Me
Apr/8/2004, 7:07 pm Link to this post Send Email to titanicangel06   Send PM to titanicangel06 AIM MSN Yahoo Blog
 
graham 01 Profile
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Cedric Member

Registered: 02-2004
Location: Middlesbrough UK
Posts: 5797
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


Hi

I did not like the film to start with, but now I will look on it as something totaly different.

In fact it is nearly making me get the film out and watching it.

I did say nearly

Great list though

Graham

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Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
http://www.freewebs.com/graham7760/index.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hmsroyaloak/
Apr/8/2004, 7:24 pm Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
Titanica Profile
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Cedric Member

Registered: 03-2004
Posts: 551
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


Well spotted Rosie1912 emoticon I second what TA said. I will print it out to have it handy when I next watch the movie!! emoticon

However I can comment on the last point only:

quote:

In the end, when they are coming back to pick up survivors, it echoes when they call out, "Is there anyone alive out there?" What are the sound waves bouncing off, icebergs?



I guess JC presented these echoes as Rose supposedly was hearing them, for she was in a sort of a "coma" and was regaining her consciousness. This is what I think!!

edited by Titanica, Apr/8/2004, 7:38 pm


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Apr/8/2004, 7:34 pm Link to this post Send Email to Titanica   Send PM to Titanica Blog
 
Rosie1912 Profile
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Celtic

Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 55
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


Got more where those came from. That's just the Factual errors. I've got Continuity, crew/camera equipment visual, Geography errors, Anachronisms, Audio/Visual Unsynchronized, Boom Mike Visable, revealing mistakes and Things Incorrectly Regared as Goofs. Also have a whole list of trivia as well..lol

Apr/8/2004, 8:01 pm Link to this post Send Email to Rosie1912   Send PM to Rosie1912
 
titanicangel06 Profile
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Registered: 04-2004
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


Great! Cant wait to see some more of your posts in here!

---
"I have been here a week, chiefly occupied trying to find my way about the big omnibus"-James Paul Moody, RMS Titanic 1912

"Nobody is worth crying over, and the one who is will never make you cry"-Me
Apr/8/2004, 9:11 pm Link to this post Send Email to titanicangel06   Send PM to titanicangel06 AIM MSN Yahoo Blog
 
Rosie1912 Profile
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Celtic

Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 55
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


Okie dokie, some more:

Audio/Visual Unsynchronized:
When Rose and Jack are on the ship as it is going down vertically, Jack says "Hold on!" about a second before his lips move.

While on deck, Jack asks, "Do you love the guy or not?" The shot changes to show Rose's reaction. Jack's jaw can be seen moving, as if he's asking the same question again, but he's not heard.

When Jack is at the bow and the dolphins are about to jump, he says "Look, look it's going to jump" about 15 seconds before it actaully jumps. Although I'm not sure if this counts...maybe a dolphin jumped before he said that and so he noticed another one was going to jump?



Boom Mike Visible:
When old Rose is seated in her stateroom aboard the salvage ship with Lizzy her granddaughter and he comes in to ask if her stateroom's all right and if there's anything she'd like. She replies, "Yes, I'd like to see my drawing," and behind her on the wall you can see the large banana shaped shadow of the boom dip down for her line and up again.

edited by Rosie1912, Apr/8/2004, 11:00 pm
Apr/8/2004, 10:55 pm Link to this post Send Email to Rosie1912   Send PM to Rosie1912
 
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Celtic

Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 55
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


Anachronisms

Rose has modern acrylic nails as she writes the note to Cal that accompanies the drawing.

While the officers are searching the hold for Jack and Rose, they use a flashlight with pure white light, not the yellowish light from a normal flashlight. Such lights were not available at that time.

When Jack is handcuffed to the steel pipes in the Master-At-Arms office, the pipe fittings are of welded steel construction. Electric arc welding was not used until the late 1920's. Pipes would have been flanged and threaded.

The Afghan hound depicted during the movie was a beautiful specimen of today but quite different from one from the 1912 era - these dogs were very sparsely coated and much coarser in build - still uniquely beautiful but quite a contrast to today's Afghans.

One of the men who is boarding a lifeboat is wearing a digital watch.

Jack claims to have gone ice fishing on Lake Wissota, which wasn't created until five years after the Titanic sank.

The pipe frames supporting the third class berths have set-screw speed rail fittings, not developed until 1946.

A closeup of Captain Smith reveals that he is wearing contact lenses.

The button on the left side of Jack's borrowed jacket is a "Kingsdrew" button, first made in 1922.

The gauges in the engine room are fitted with sweated tubing fittings, a plumbing technique not available when the ship was constructed. The fittings should have been threaded brass.

The gun Cal uses is in fact a model 1911A1, a modified version of the 1911 that didn't appear until 1926. The main distinguishing feature is its curved mainspring housing (bottom part of the grip), which on the 1911 is straight. Even if it were the standard 1911, that model had only been used by the military for a few months, and was not yet available in the nickel plating shown; the civilian version had only been available for about a month.

Filtered cigarettes did not come out until the mid-40's.

The world map on the wall of the radio room shows countries with present-day borders.
Apr/8/2004, 10:56 pm Link to this post Send Email to Rosie1912   Send PM to Rosie1912
 
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Celtic

Registered: 11-2003
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Re: cameron movie nit picks...you got em i know


and some more.. You guys are going to have fun..lol
I've also got "Hidden Faces" as well: You know the famous faces such as Smith and the officers, the Strauss', Astor's, Duff Gordon's, Countess of Roths, etc, but there are "hidden faces" that are meant to be some well known passengers, such as:

The little boy spinning the top on the deck as Jack sneaks to the 1st class area, the boy is suppose to be Douglas Spedden and the guy who said "Very good" or "well done" (forgot which) is Don Lynch. I'll post those later..

Continuity:
After Jack saves Rose from jumping from the stern of the ship, the make-up under Rose's left eye appears and disappears, then reappears.

First Officer William Murdoch is seen trying to free one of the collapsible lifeboats after he has supposedly shot himself.

After Jack and Rose take a shortcut through the engine room to escape Cal's manservant, there is no soot on Rose's pale blue gown.

The size of shape of the clay pot Rose is making.

The last watertight door that is shown is at first pale, suddenly it gets dark and it goes pale again when it closes

In the scene with Jack and Rose having sex in the car, the pass-through window between the seats through which Rose pulls Jack is open when he goes through it, and then in the next shot is closed without ever seeing him close it.

When Rose is searching for someone to help her when Jack is handcuffed, she punches a porter in the nose, but he has blood on his hand before he touches his nose.

When Rose prepares to leap from the stern, the red sign warning that Titanic is a triple screw vessel is on the port side of the stern mast. When subsequently seen during the ship "over-flight", the sign is on the starboard side of the mast.

The safe that was opened on deck was much bigger than the one shown being used eighty years earlier.

When Jack is held prisoner in the Master-at-arms' office you can see from time to time in the background a two-berth room. The top berth is neatly kept but later on even though Jack is alone and handcuffed and Rose in the two occasions she comes into that office never enters that room you can see that there is a pillow lying across the bed's border.

A small sign "crew only," helps Rose to find her way to free Jack from the handcuffs. It is located on the archway of the corridor, but it was not there when Jack and Rose had come at the same spot (the elevator's hall at E deck) a few hours before fleeing from Lovejoy.

After Rose wakes in the water, ice is seen on Jack's upper lip; in the side angle it's not there.

When Jack and Fabrizio are playing cards, a fairly deep sore is noticeable on Jack's left middle finger as he holds his cards. The sore is gone when Jack joins Rose in the first class dining room for dinner only a few days later (the sore looks too deep to have healed so quickly).

When the smokestack is falling, the back of it comes out of the water. In the scene directly after, it is still coming out of the water.

When the Titanic is in port, the sun appears to come from several different angles. Compare the following: The shadow of the crewman loading the car, the shadows of people walking up the gangplank, the shadow of the sun's rays in the steam, the shadows that Rose & family cast on the gangplank, and the sunlight on the yellow building when they first enter Titanic.

When storming out of his room claiming to be robbed, parts of Cal's bangs are hanging in front of his face but when he turns around to see the steward his hair is tucked back smoothly.

At the dinner scene and the party scene below decks that follows, Rose's gloves disappear, reappear then disappear again

There is a small mole on Rose's face; when she boards the ship, it is shown on one side of her face (the film was flopped), and later in the movie it jumps to the other side.

When they get Cal's safe on the deck of the Keldysh, a crewman starts to grind on the hinges. In the next scene, he is standing up, just preparing to kneel down and work on the safe.

When Cal is looking for Rose on the Carpathia, you can see her standing in the background facing away from him without the blanket covering her head. In the very next shot, she is sitting down with the blanket covering her head.

When Rose sets the ax between the bars as she takes off her coat, the ax blade rests against two metal bars to keep it from falling into the water. The next shot showing Rose from behind now shows the ax at a completely different angle with the blade positioned against only one metal bar.

During Jack and Rose's trip on the deck to the bow right before the sinking, she is wearing flat shoes. In the water, laying on the furniture (as Jack hangs on) she is wearing high heels.

After the "Lets stretch her legs" scene, we can see chief engineer Bell increasing steam pressure by turning the regulator counterclockwise. Later during the collision with the iceberg, we can see some worker decreasing pressure by starting to turn the regulator clockwise, yet in next shot he is turning the regulator counterclockwise still decreasing the pressure. Several shots later, after change to reverse, Bell is increasing pressure by turning the regulator clockwise.

Paper money wad that First Officer Murdoch throws at Cal.

In the flyover shot after the "King of the world" scene, the shadows on the ship's bow are directed to the right, yet in the same shot stern shadows are directed almost backwards.

Steam occasionally coming off First Officer Murdoch's mouth as he is breathing during the collision with the iceberg. This appears in other scenes as well.

When Jack and Fabrizio are standing at the bow Jack is holding his arm under the rope that goes up toward the look-out. In the next cut the arm is over and in the next again it's under.

When Jack breaks down the third-class gate and frees the steerage passengers from the stairwell, you can see Tommy Ryan take Rose by the arm to get her over the fallen bench. In the next shot, he takes her arm again in the same place.

Young Rose's shoes are clearly off in one wide shot as she stands on the railing of the ship. As they cut to her before she turns around, when you can see her entire body, you can clearly see in two shots her toes outlined by black nylons clutching the rail, and NOT her heels as seen previously in other shots before and afterward when she slips on her gown going back over the rail to safety.

When Jack and Fabrizio first take to the bow of the ship, while dolphins are swimming along with it, they show them at the helm with the ship flying along but then on the close up of Jack looking down, his hair is stiff and unmoved, not a breath of wind, which would be impossible on a ship flying onward at sea in the afternoon.

When Captain Smith orders, "Take her to sea, Mr. Murdoch -- let's stretch her legs," they are standing to the right of the wheelhouse looking forward with the sun coming from their left. When Murdoch walks into the wheelhouse to carry out the order, the sun is behind him.

Jack takes Rose and Molly's arms to go into dinner. They start walking, but in the next shot they are still standing apart.

The length of Rose's fingernails throughout the movie.

The porthole in the master-at-arms' office is shown to be several feet below water, yet a later shot from inside the room shows the surface of the water visible inches above the porthole.

The broken glass that the axe sits behind.

Near the beginning of the movie, when Rose runs to the back of the ship, in one shot she is wearing a necklace and in the next it is gone.

At the beginning when the yellowish lenses are used you see a woman waving with one arm. Later in the film when Titanic set off the same woman at the front of the boat is waving with the opposite arm.

When Rose is on deck, with Jack, looking at his sketchings, the hair around her face alternates between perfect ringlets and wind-blown straight.

When Rose "lets Jack go" into the water, just before his eyes go under, you can see his eye flinch, indicating that he's not really dead, and just acting.

The water is shown to be coming above the clock twice: once when the water is heading toward the ceiling when Eric Braeden is coming up the stairs, and again after the first funnel lands on Fabrizio.

The angle that the surface of the rising water has to the objects around should be nearly the same from scene to scene. Frequently one sees the ship already tipping at a high angle on the outside and in the cabins the surface of the water is still parallel to the ceiling. That could not happen while the ship remained rigid.

As Rose and Cal begin their breakfast together on the promenade deck, Rose picks up her cup of coffee, then picks it up again when we see her from behind.

Jack's hair when he is dancing with Rose below decks.

When Jack is handcuffed to the pipe and Rose uses the ax to free him, one can see, especially in slow motion, that the ax hits the back of Jack's hand and not the handcuffs.
Apr/8/2004, 11:09 pm Link to this post Send Email to Rosie1912   Send PM to Rosie1912
 


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