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graham 01 Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
Location: Middlesbrough UK
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Re: The Californian incident views


Hi wills and All

I suppose one can look at the other side of the argument, Lets say that Lord had got on the bridge and decided that the flares where a emergency, If he was stuck in Ice what if anything could he do? Yes I know I am open now for a barrage of posts to the contrary and it is not a debate of it's and buts, But I suppose it could also be said and I don't agree with this in principle but it could be said the Captain of the Carpathia acted reckless.

We all condemn the Californian but we praise the Carpathia, lets say for instance when the chief engineer on board the Carpathia placed his cap over the pressure gauge in order not to see how perilous it was getting and for some reason it had blown a boiler, or Carpathia had struck a burg, what would we be saying now.

What of the sealer who got out of the area fast on seeing flares. Ok he was supposed to be sealing illegally. Would that of mattered if he had saved most aboard the Titanic or any ship in reality. It seems on evidence given that it was his lights the boats may of been drawing to.

The debate on Lord is a heavy one and both sides of the argument at times put good points forward.

I am now wearing my body armour and await with interest

Regards
Graham

---
Why dont people do what they say nowadays http://www.freewebs.com/hms-kellington/
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Apr/3/2004, 12:52 pm Link to this post Send Email to graham 01   Send PM to graham 01 Blog
 
Teamtunafish Profile
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Registered: 06-2003
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Re: The Californian incident views


When you refer to the sealer, I assume you are speaking of the Samson? That was disproved - she was in port in Iceland three nights later, according to the portmaster's documents, so there was no way she was anywhere near Titanic that night.
Apr/3/2004, 7:00 pm Link to this post Send Email to Teamtunafish   Send PM to Teamtunafish ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo Blog
 
wills Profile
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Re: The Californian incident views



ok graham,
here is my thought...
remember you asked for it emoticon

i really don't think that lord was as trapped by ice as he was letting on....however whom here or anywhere actually knows.... it could have been a cover up for him or it could have been true.

anyway i think he could have found his way through it anyway. any master seaman or any half competant seaman would have found a way.

like i said it was almost like an unspoken law among sailors to have each others back no matter what company they worked for.

it is a show of respect for the fellow sailor. now ia m rather neutral when it comes to the lord theory however i really think that if he would have wanted to help he would have .

the only time anything becomes impossible is when you do not try.

more on this later.
wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
Apr/4/2004, 12:04 am Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
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Re: The Californian incident views


Wills, to be absolutely fair to the man, let's see what would have happened had he heeded those rockets, ok?

He fires up the boilers. As these have been let go, it takes a bit to get them going again. Say 30 minutes, as these are 500 gallons and water retains heat.

So we are in the dark, only searchlights, trying to make it through a maze of channels in the ice in the dark. Heading sort of "thataway" where we saw the rockets. We go cautiously, as we know if we screw up, bingo, we're dead too.

Best case scenario: 15 - 20 minutes there. We have now spent fifty minutes. We now have 15 miles to go in a twenty knot ship. Let's pile the steam on and get there.

We arrive 40 minutes later. Titanic sank ten to twenty minutes ago. In 29 degree water (any salt water in an ice floe can get no colder) according to Coast Guard tables, a person of 100 pounds has 18 to 35 minutes. These people are dead. All the others are half- to full-dead. We can pick up but a sad few.

Mind you, I think he should have tried - picking up even one person would have been a good idea, and the fact he made no effort is appalling. But please realize that even if he had fired up those boilers, he would not have been able to save a vast number of those in the water.

It's one of those terrible situations where I see both sides and realize I will be crucified for it. Oh well, who wants to live forever?
Apr/4/2004, 4:23 am Link to this post Send Email to Teamtunafish   Send PM to Teamtunafish ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo Blog
 
wills Profile
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Re: The Californian incident views


no one is here to crucifi you for stating your opinoin...
that is a very good point you bring up..
however the carpathia made it through and my thoughts are if they can do it then so could the californian..
like i stated earlier though that noon of us know for sure what happen the night in question the best we can offer is an estimated guess depending on the few facts that we can dig up and compare enough to know we go with them....
you are right it does take time to heat up boilers however any chance is better then none.
wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
Apr/4/2004, 4:28 am Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
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Re: The Californian incident views


Yea, that's what makes it so sad - she didn't even try
Apr/4/2004, 4:38 am Link to this post Send Email to Teamtunafish   Send PM to Teamtunafish ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo Blog
 
wills Profile
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Re: The Californian incident views


quote:

teamtunafish wrote:

Yea, that's what makes it so sad - she didn't even try



thats exactly how i feel about it. if she had tried it would have been different. and i think people would have taken better thoughts toward lord.

wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
Apr/4/2004, 6:35 pm Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
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Re: The Californian incident views


That and he tried to maufacture a cover-up. I'm real big on if you screw up, admit it - making others help you cover up something is undignified. And above all, a captain needs the full respect of a crew - how can you respect a man who forces you to lie for him?
Apr/4/2004, 6:45 pm Link to this post Send Email to Teamtunafish   Send PM to Teamtunafish ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo Blog
 
wills Profile
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Re: The Californian incident views


very good questio ttf.
i believe the exact thing.
you cant get respect from the crew if you are having them lie for you.
i can tell you that.. the people i work with they follow everything i say and if i dont walk a straight line they think they can get away with it too.
if you are a captain it is the same thing you are an example ...they are watching even when you dont think they are ...
wills

---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........

Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.


http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
Apr/4/2004, 6:49 pm Link to this post Send Email to wills   Send PM to wills Blog
 
Lights Profile
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posticon Re: The Californian incident views


Hmmm...Bruce vs. Stanley...gotta say Ismay is a lot more sympathetic than Lord, no matter how you cut it. I still believe the matter of Capt. Lord rests upon his failure to even attempt to go to Titanic's aid! Had he made even the slightest effort to help, he would have been in the clear...even the latest rehearing of his case comes to that judgement.

---
"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
Apr/5/2004, 3:49 pm Link to this post Send Email to Lights   Send PM to Lights AIM Yahoo Blog
 


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