The Californian incident views https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/t670 Runboard| The Californian incident views en-us Tue, 19 Mar 2024 03:47:54 +0000 Tue, 19 Mar 2024 03:47:54 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11786,from=rss#post11786https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11786,from=rss#post11786This topic has been moved from Main titanic forum to the archive forum and is still viewable and active. If it becomes active again it will be placed back in the main titanic forum grahamnondisclosed_email@example.com (graham 01)Mon, 17 May 2004 08:35:05 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11785,from=rss#post11785https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11785,from=rss#post11785Hi TTf Sorry about that a moments laps and see what happens. Grahamnondisclosed_email@example.com (graham 01)Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:09:49 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11784,from=rss#post11784https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11784,from=rss#post11784Hmmmmm....we seem to wandered off the Californian a tad though.........nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:05:58 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11783,from=rss#post11783https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11783,from=rss#post11783Hi Wills Have we been reading the weekly news again.? Got to admit though I dont mind these type of stories but like TTf says it is when they start to believe them and push them down to others as true or fact. I know I have to have tin foil insulating all my rooms. Not use the microwave as it is sending messages after 6pm at night. What What ??? The little people want me again now to phone home I think :-) Grahamnondisclosed_email@example.com (graham 01)Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:20:43 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11782,from=rss#post11782https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11782,from=rss#post11782yes it is i agree it acan get a tad bit scary at times. willsnondisclosed_email@example.com (wills)Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:53:57 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11781,from=rss#post11781https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11781,from=rss#post11781Yea, it's just when you meet some of these people, and they're convinced they're right, and everybody else is a) wrong or b) out to get them, then it gets a tad scary.....nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:47:53 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11780,from=rss#post11780https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11780,from=rss#post11780quote:teamtunafish wrote: Consideing some of the theories I've heard, that one's downright believable. lol there are some very strange ones out there isnt there ..... that is just one of many i have heard . i thought it was rather funny that is why i remembered it. willsnondisclosed_email@example.com (wills)Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:39:33 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11779,from=rss#post11779https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11779,from=rss#post11779Consideing some of the theories I've heard, that one's downright believable.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:07:26 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11778,from=rss#post11778https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11778,from=rss#post11778quote:Graham 01 wrote: Hi TTF I think it may be someone upstairs who dont like me somehow. But I am getting reply from a man on planet ZORG. Graham well it would be nice to get an outsiders opinion lol. maybe he was there too you think. after all one myth i heard was that a space ship sank her. hahahahaha sorry go figure right? willsnondisclosed_email@example.com (wills)Wed, 07 Apr 2004 21:32:17 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11777,from=rss#post11777https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11777,from=rss#post11777Sorry i am late i see again...oh well heres my thought, if there was a question as to the nature of the emergency or severity, i have to agree with ttf that the least they could have done is be honest about it. They had to have known there was something going on as close s they were. I know it wouldnt have changed anything, but it still gets me a little down thinking that a possible aid was just around the corner so to speak and did nothing..not sure how the rest of you feel but thats my opinionnondisclosed_email@example.com (titanicangel06)Wed, 07 Apr 2004 21:27:33 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11776,from=rss#post11776https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11776,from=rss#post11776Hi TTF The following message is from him:-) Lord zugger zoom zong zong californian buggle uggle zigger boom bom bom. daggle misik zug zug Ahh well maybe not a good person to ask Grahamnondisclosed_email@example.com (graham 01)Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:40:56 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11775,from=rss#post11775https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11775,from=rss#post11775Really? What does he say about the Californian? At last, a new voice in the debate! (Wink)nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:02:08 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11774,from=rss#post11774https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11774,from=rss#post11774Hi TTF I think it may be someone upstairs who dont like me somehow. But I am getting reply from a man on planet ZORG. Grahamnondisclosed_email@example.com (graham 01)Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:42:48 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11773,from=rss#post11773https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11773,from=rss#post11773All I can suggest is e-mail God and have him ask the Alkeva people, then.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:57:27 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11772,from=rss#post11772https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11772,from=rss#post11772Hi TTF Been there done that got the tea shirt, :-) Ahh well no problem it is working now ok. Ohh and it was not just me for once others had the same problem :-) Graham nondisclosed_email@example.com (graham 01)Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:54:03 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11771,from=rss#post11771https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11771,from=rss#post11771Check your control panel.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:26:14 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11770,from=rss#post11770https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11770,from=rss#post11770hi all I am confused, I seem to be replying to these mails and then not seeing it but finding more added. I think I will sit back and start again or am I on a different thread to everyone else? Must check Grahamnondisclosed_email@example.com (graham 01)Mon, 05 Apr 2004 17:55:43 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11769,from=rss#post11769https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11769,from=rss#post11769Heck, I would have been satisfied if he had said, "Listen, we were in pack ice, with growlers and bergs surrounding us, and there was some doubt in my mind if this was a genuine emergency - and even had we gone immediately to their aid, we would not have saved the entire ship." Anything but the lying. -Lee, who lived through Watergate in Washington, D.C.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:53:37 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11768,from=rss#post11768https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11768,from=rss#post11768Hmmm...Bruce vs. Stanley...gotta say Ismay is a lot more sympathetic than Lord, no matter how you cut it. I still believe the matter of Capt. Lord rests upon his failure to even attempt to go to Titanic's aid! Had he made even the slightest effort to help, he would have been in the clear...even the latest rehearing of his case comes to that judgement.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Lights)Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:49:09 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11767,from=rss#post11767https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11767,from=rss#post11767very good questio ttf. i believe the exact thing. you cant get respect from the crew if you are having them lie for you. i can tell you that.. the people i work with they follow everything i say and if i dont walk a straight line they think they can get away with it too. if you are a captain it is the same thing you are an example ...they are watching even when you dont think they are ... willsnondisclosed_email@example.com (wills)Sun, 04 Apr 2004 18:49:47 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11766,from=rss#post11766https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11766,from=rss#post11766That and he tried to maufacture a cover-up. I'm real big on if you screw up, admit it - making others help you cover up something is undignified. And above all, a captain needs the full respect of a crew - how can you respect a man who forces you to lie for him?nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Sun, 04 Apr 2004 18:45:02 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11765,from=rss#post11765https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11765,from=rss#post11765quote:teamtunafish wrote: Yea, that's what makes it so sad - she didn't even try thats exactly how i feel about it. if she had tried it would have been different. and i think people would have taken better thoughts toward lord. willsnondisclosed_email@example.com (wills)Sun, 04 Apr 2004 18:35:55 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11764,from=rss#post11764https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11764,from=rss#post11764Yea, that's what makes it so sad - she didn't even trynondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:38:24 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11763,from=rss#post11763https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11763,from=rss#post11763no one is here to crucifi you for stating your opinoin... that is a very good point you bring up.. however the carpathia made it through and my thoughts are if they can do it then so could the californian.. like i stated earlier though that noon of us know for sure what happen the night in question the best we can offer is an estimated guess depending on the few facts that we can dig up and compare enough to know we go with them.... you are right it does take time to heat up boilers however any chance is better then none. willsnondisclosed_email@example.com (wills)Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:28:54 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11762,from=rss#post11762https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11762,from=rss#post11762Wills, to be absolutely fair to the man, let's see what would have happened had he heeded those rockets, ok? He fires up the boilers. As these have been let go, it takes a bit to get them going again. Say 30 minutes, as these are 500 gallons and water retains heat. So we are in the dark, only searchlights, trying to make it through a maze of channels in the ice in the dark. Heading sort of "thataway" where we saw the rockets. We go cautiously, as we know if we screw up, bingo, we're dead too. Best case scenario: 15 - 20 minutes there. We have now spent fifty minutes. We now have 15 miles to go in a twenty knot ship. Let's pile the steam on and get there. We arrive 40 minutes later. Titanic sank ten to twenty minutes ago. In 29 degree water (any salt water in an ice floe can get no colder) according to Coast Guard tables, a person of 100 pounds has 18 to 35 minutes. These people are dead. All the others are half- to full-dead. We can pick up but a sad few. Mind you, I think he should have tried - picking up even one person would have been a good idea, and the fact he made no effort is appalling. But please realize that even if he had fired up those boilers, he would not have been able to save a vast number of those in the water. It's one of those terrible situations where I see both sides and realize I will be crucified for it. Oh well, who wants to live forever?nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:23:08 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11761,from=rss#post11761https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11761,from=rss#post11761 ok graham, here is my thought... remember you asked for it i really don't think that lord was as trapped by ice as he was letting on....however whom here or anywhere actually knows.... it could have been a cover up for him or it could have been true. anyway i think he could have found his way through it anyway. any master seaman or any half competant seaman would have found a way. like i said it was almost like an unspoken law among sailors to have each others back no matter what company they worked for. it is a show of respect for the fellow sailor. now ia m rather neutral when it comes to the lord theory however i really think that if he would have wanted to help he would have . the only time anything becomes impossible is when you do not try. more on this later. willsnondisclosed_email@example.com (wills)Sun, 04 Apr 2004 00:04:25 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11760,from=rss#post11760https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11760,from=rss#post11760When you refer to the sealer, I assume you are speaking of the Samson? That was disproved - she was in port in Iceland three nights later, according to the portmaster's documents, so there was no way she was anywhere near Titanic that night.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Teamtunafish)Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:00:37 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11759,from=rss#post11759https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11759,from=rss#post11759Hi wills and All I suppose one can look at the other side of the argument, Lets say that Lord had got on the bridge and decided that the flares where a emergency, If he was stuck in Ice what if anything could he do? Yes I know I am open now for a barrage of posts to the contrary and it is not a debate of it's and buts, But I suppose it could also be said and I don't agree with this in principle but it could be said the Captain of the Carpathia acted reckless. We all condemn the Californian but we praise the Carpathia, lets say for instance when the chief engineer on board the Carpathia placed his cap over the pressure gauge in order not to see how perilous it was getting and for some reason it had blown a boiler, or Carpathia had struck a burg, what would we be saying now. What of the sealer who got out of the area fast on seeing flares. Ok he was supposed to be sealing illegally. Would that of mattered if he had saved most aboard the Titanic or any ship in reality. It seems on evidence given that it was his lights the boats may of been drawing to. The debate on Lord is a heavy one and both sides of the argument at times put good points forward. I am now wearing my body armour and await with interest Regards Grahamnondisclosed_email@example.com (graham 01)Sat, 03 Apr 2004 12:52:02 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11758,from=rss#post11758https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11758,from=rss#post11758quote:teamtunafish wrote: So do any of you hold any of the officers on Californian's bridge responsible in any way? I certainly think that they could have shown a little more entreaty to their captain, making sure he realized they thought the situation was more serious than he seems to have perceived. well i believe that they should have at least had the wireless operater to turn back on his wireless aparatas. i dont really think we can say much on that as far as if we blame anyone... that is a very hard to place blame on one person or party . i blame that cap.though because he chose to stay still . willsnondisclosed_email@example.com (wills)Thu, 01 Apr 2004 03:33:47 +0000 Re: The Californian incident viewshttps://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11757,from=rss#post11757https://btomdyerstitanicsitecommunity.runboard.com/p11757,from=rss#post11757Hi teamtunafish It depends what part of the whole thing one believes. Of the top of my head I seem to remember Gills tried to persuade the officers on watch to investigate and awake the captain again. Would have to check on that though, there was also a second testimony which said more or less the same but can not remember who that was. Regards Grahamnondisclosed_email@example.com (graham 01)Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:45:30 +0000