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Touch her?


Do you think that dives to the wreck should not touch the ship but only look at her and the items in the debris field from a distance?

Tom.

---
Margaret "Molly" Brown biography
White Star Line History Website
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Mar/21/2005, 10:22 pm Link to this post Send Email to Thomas Dyer   Send PM to Thomas Dyer
 
Dudek Profile
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Re: Touch her?


No i think that the more they find out about her and about the people who boarded her the more we can learn from the sinking of her, why let the biggest disaster in the last century be left alone when we can learn from it?

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May/3/2005, 9:47 pm Link to this post Send Email to Dudek   Send PM to Dudek
 
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Re: Touch her?


I can't see a reason in the world why not. I've written several long diatribes on the subject here as to why it is not wrong to responsibly (key word there) investigate and salvage whatever is found.

7th~
May/4/2005, 1:58 pm Link to this post Send Email to 7th officer   Send PM to 7th officer
 
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Re: Touch her?


i agree with 7th officer, theres no reason not to, if we do leave her then we'd just regret it

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posticon Re: Touch her?


I'll make a deal with you if you leave the spoils of the Titanic lay and when they put you to rest we won't take your rings and other personal property from your grave! That's about the best way I'd answer that question.
May/6/2005, 2:38 am Link to this post Send Email to captianjack   Send PM to captianjack Yahoo
 
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Re: Touch her?


Capt. Jack, Take a look at my comment of 5 April in the "Is it right" thread on this forum.

7th~
May/10/2005, 12:12 am Link to this post Send Email to 7th officer   Send PM to 7th officer
 
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Re: Touch her?


OK, however it may be time top elabroate on my stance. I agree with collection and salavging items from sights when, 1) those items can be useful to study the daily tasks of or understand how that cilization prospered from those woodworking or hunting tools or cooking utilities. These salvaged items provide a clue to that cilization.

However we know very well the 1912 era time frame of human development and those eye glasses, boots dishes and the personal items recovered from the Titanic do nothing to promote the understanding of 1912 human cilization.

I think it should be treated no differently than the [sign in to see URL]. ARIZONA BB-39, whick is resting in the Pearl Harbor Bay. Would their boots, eye glasses or cooking utilitis help us understand Pearl Harbor Dec. 7, 1941?
May/10/2005, 6:47 pm Link to this post Send Email to captianjack   Send PM to captianjack Yahoo
 
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Re: Touch her?


I don't think the point is so much archaeological study as it is sentimentality. One can ponder a Civil War belt buckle, knowing full well what they were used for and how, yet still look at the individual scratches and dents on it and wonder what that soldier was like, where he called home, how he felt in battle, etc.
The same goes with the Titanic relics--they're not a study of early twentieth century life, but rather a focus point of the actual individual people who were there. I have seen some of the artifacts from the twin towers of the 9-11 disaster. I know very well what life in NYC four years ago was [sign in to see URL] seeing these smashed relics--well, it brought it [sign in to see URL] for tears. And I'm not ashamed to admit it.
Cannot the Titanic relics do the same?

7th~
May/12/2005, 3:13 pm Link to this post Send Email to 7th officer   Send PM to 7th officer
 
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Re: Touch her?


I think at some point one has to draw a line when to stop removing artifacts from the sight in the name of science and say the sight needs to be preserved.
  As for the civil war buckle I see no problem with a buckle handed down or even found in the field but I would draw the line that I would not take it from the final resting sight of a fallen soldier's grave be it a man-made or natural buried from time sight! It belongs w/ the fallen as does relics from Indian burial grounds which are protected by law.
Those items for display at the 9-11 center were donated by friends/family anything ever disputed as property of others is pulled and returned to family. Thats different all together than Titanic.
Don't you think we have enough relics from the debrie field now to have a sentiment feel for that time and event? I think now the all mighty dollar is the driving force for recovery of artifacts more than appreation of time sake.
I'm curious do you feel there should be some limitations?
May/13/2005, 5:05 am Link to this post Send Email to captianjack   Send PM to captianjack Yahoo
 
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Re: Touch her?


[sign in to see URL] see we are never going to completely agree--and that's all right because different opinions are what makes the world work.
I do give lots of thought to your [sign in to see URL] don't see quite the logic in it.
I don't think the Titanic artifacts are brought up in the name of science (although science plays a large part in being able to bring them up), but more in the name of sentimentality or [sign in to see URL] maybe even a touch of what the Germans call 'Schattenfreude' (there but for the grace of god go I); but in any event, for much for the same reason people like Civil War relics--or any other kind for that matter.
And as for that hypothetical (dug up) Civil War buckle, I don't see so much difference between one of them and the Titanic stuff. Both came a site of much death and sorrow, both are incidental objects.
I think where you (and others) are looking at all this differently than the rest is thinking in terms of 'grave goods'. A Civil War buckle--or any piece of military hardware--is not grave goods in the true sense of the word. On another thread I defined grave goods as those objects intentionally left or intered with a body by loved ones for religious or sentimental reasons.
I would most heartily agree with you that removal of such things is most immoral and I can hardly think of an excuse for doing such. However; the things we are talking about--military equipment, Titanic artifacts--even the 9-11 [sign in to see URL] a bent hubcap from a fatal car wreck, are all incidental debris--NOT grave goods by any definition of the term. Merely man made objects that found themselves deposited in the vicinity of a fatal incident.
That's where the line is drawn: grave goods? or incidental debris?
And that line in most all cases can be firmly drawn.

7th~
May/13/2005, 2:14 pm Link to this post Send Email to 7th officer   Send PM to 7th officer
 


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